Some Suggestions Regarding the Prospects for the Fourth Political Theory in Europe

by Alexander Dugin

 

To get to the Fourth Political Theory, we must begin from three ideological points.

 

From Liberalism to the Fourth Political Theory: The Hardest Road

To proceed from liberalism to the Fourth Political Theory is the most difficult path, since it is the opposite of all forms of liberalism. Liberalism is the essence of modernity, but the Fourth Political Theory considers modernity to be an absolute evil. Liberalism, which takes as its primary subject the individual and all the values and agendas that proceed from it, is viewed as the enemy. To embrace the Fourth Political Theory (4PT), a liberal should deny himself ideologically and reject liberalism and its suppositions in their entirety.

The liberal is an individualist. He is dangerous only when he is an extrovert, since in doing so he destroys his community and the social bonds with which he is associated. Being an introverted liberal is less dangerous because he only destroys himself. And this is a good thing: one liberal less.

But there is one interesting fact: the 4PT diverges from the modern versions of anti-liberalism (namely, socialism and fascism) by proposing not a critique of the individual as viewed from the outside, but rather his implosion. This means not to take a step back into pre-liberal forms of society, or one step sideways into the illiberal types of modernity, but rather one step inside the nihilistic nature of the individual as constructed by liberalism. Therefore, the liberal discovers his way to the 4PT when he takes one step further and achieves self-affirmation as the unique and ultimate instance of being.  This is the final consequence of the most radical solipsism, and can lead to an implosion of the ego and the appearance of the real Self (which is also the goal of the practices associated with Advaita Vedanta).

Nietzsche called his Übermensch ”the winner of God and nothing.” By this he meant the overcoming of the old values of Tradition, but also the nothingness that comes in their place. Liberalism has accomplished the overcoming of God and the victory of pure nothingness. But this is the midnight before the breaking of dawn. So taking one step further into the midnight of European nihilism is how a liberal who wishes to leave this identity, which is more consistent with a peculiarly Western destiny of decline (because the Occident itself is nothing but decline at present – more on this later) behind, arrives at the horizon of the 4PT.

Modernity is certainly a European phenomenon. But liberalism as the essence of modernity is not so much European as Anglo-Saxon and trans-European, specifically North American. Europe was the preliminary stage of modernity, and thus Europe includes within itself the socialist (Communist) as well as fascist identities alongside the purely liberal one. Europe is the motherland of all three political theories. But America is a place where only one of them is deeply rooted and fully developed. So despite being born in Europe, liberalism has ripened in America. Europe and the USA are comparable to father and child. The child inherited only one of the possibilities from its father, albeit the most important one. As a result, liberalism in Europe is partly autochthonous and partly imposed by America (being re-exported). That is the reason why American followers of the 4PT are so important. If they manage to overcome liberalism in the Far West, they will show the path for European liberals to follow. This is something akin to Julius Evola’s idea of differentiated man. This remark makes reference to my article about the 4PT in Europe and specifically to my final two propositions in it regarding how to overcome the individual: by method of self-transcendence by an effort of the will (a kind of polytheistic effort of pure will), or through an existential encounter with death and absolute loneliness.

Therefore, the way from liberalism to the 4PT in Europe passes through America and its inner mystics. This is the third attempt to make sense of America: the first one was that of de Tocqueville, the second was that of Jean Baudrillard. The third one is reserved for the European who approaches the Far West in a search for the mystery of liberalism from the 4PT perspective.

 

From Communism to the 4PT: From Radical Critics to the Principal Critics

The way from the Communist position to the 4PT is much easier and shorter. There are some common points: first of all, the radical rejection of liberalism, capitalism and individualism. There is a clear and definite common enemy. The problem is that the positive program of Communism is deeply rooted in modernity and shares many typically modern notions: the universality of social progress, linear time, materialistic science, atheism, eurocentrism and so on. The battle of Communism against capitalism belongs to the past. But the 4PT is the main ideological opponent of liberalism at present. So a genuine Communist can easily become attracted to the 4PT, considering its anti-liberal aspects.

To take this step, one needs to move on from the radical critics of modernity, such as Marx, to the principal critics of modernity, such as René Guénon, according to the excellent formulation of the French author, René Alleau. This brings us to the relevance of National Bolshevism. National Bolshevism is a kind of hermeneutics that identifies the qualitative features in the quantitative vision of socialism. For orthodox Marxists, society is based strictly on class principles and the socialist community is formed everywhere according to one model. But National Bolsheviks, having analyzed the Soviet, German and Chinese experiences, have remarked that, put into practice, Marxism can help to create societies with the clear features of a national culture and which possess specific and unique identities. While being theoretically internationalist, historical Communist societies were nationalist with a strong presence of traditional aspects. Therefore socialism, being the by-product of liberal modernity, can be regarded as an extreme and heretical kind of pre-modernity and an eschatological form of ecstatic religiosity – following the examples of the Gnostics, the Cathars, Bruno, Münzer and so on. That was also the opinion of Eric Voegelin, who called this the immanentization of the eschaton. (This is a heretical notion, but it is traditional nevertheless.)

The way to the 4PT for the European Left passes through the historical and geopolitical analyses of the National Bolsheviks (Ernst Niekisch, Ernst Jünger and so on). Excellent work in this regard has been done by the European New Right and especially by Alain de Benoist.

 

From the Third Position to the 4PT: The Shortest Way but Problematic Nevertheless

From the European Third Position to the 4PT is only one step, because the 3PT and 4PT share the Conservative Revolution of the Weimar era and traditionalism as common starting points. But that step is not easy to take. The 4PT is strictly anti-modern, in fact counter-modern. But the nation that is so dear to representatives of the Third Position is essentially a modern notion, just as are the concepts of the State and of race. The 4PT is against any and all kinds of universalism, and refuses eurocentrism of any kind – liberal as well as nationalist.

The ethnic traditions of the European peoples are sacred in their roots and form a part of their spiritual heritage. Yet ethnic identity is something quite different from the national State as a political body. European history was always based on the plurality of its cultures and the unity of its spiritual authorities. This was destroyed, first by the Protestant Reformation and then by modernity. The liquidation of European spiritual unity was part of the origin of European nationalism. Therefore the 4PT supports the idea of a new European empire as a traditional empire with a spiritual foundation, and with the dialectical coexistence of diverse ethic groups. Instead of national States in Europe, a sacred empire – Indo-European, Roman and Greek.

This is the dividing line between the European 4PT and its Third Position: the refusal of any kind of nationalism, chauvinism, eurocentrism, universalism, racism, or xenophobic attitude. The historic pretensions and hostilities between the European ethnic groups existed, to be sure. It should be recognized. But it is irresponsible to construct a political program on that basis. Europe should stand for geopolitical unity, coupled with the preservation of the ethnic and cultural diversity of the various European ethnoses.

The 4PT affirms that geopolitics is the primary instrument that can be used to understand the contemporary world. So Europe should be reconstructed as an independent geopolitical power. All these points coincide with the main principles of the French New Right and with the manifesto of GRECE by Alain de Benoist. Therefore we should consider the European New Right as a manifestation of the 4PT.

Here we approach the philosophy of Martin Heidegger, who is central to and the most important thinker for the 4PT. The 4PT takes as its primary subject the Heideggerian notion of Dasein. Heidegger is the metaphysical (fundamental-ontological) step from the Third Position toward the Fourth one. The task is to develop the implicit political philosophy of Heidegger into an explicit one, thus creating as a consequence a doctrine of existential politics.

Last point. Europe is the West, and decline is its essence. To come to the lowest point of its descent (Niedergang) is the fate of Europe. It is deeply tragic, and not something one should be proud of. So the 4PT is in favor of a European Idea in which Europe is understood as a sort of tragic community (as per Georges Bataille): a culture that is searching for itself in the heart of Hell.

Svar

  1. Profilbild för Teofrastus

    This inane crap could have been written by the average gone astray senior high student. Dugin elevates Heidegger, who was a Nazi and wore a swaztika on his sleeve. Nevertheless, Dugin says that ”4PT” rejects racism! The notion of rejecting ”xenophobic attitudes” is self-defeating, because research has shown that people cannot control it consciously. It is not enough to say that ”I am not a racist!”. In fact, it’s the constant, vague, just-below-the-surface acts of racism that impair performance, day in and day out. Surreptitious racism magnifies when people remain politically correct and refuse to talk openly about painful questions (see ’Racism’s Cognitive Toll: Subtle Discrimination Is More Taxing On The Brain’. ScienceDaily (Sep. 24, 2007).

    Dugin embraces collectivism, the horrible evil that in diverse forms has afflicted the modern era. (And whoever knows what Heidegger means by ’Dasein’? Does phenomenological ontology really matter to you people?)

    It is becoming more and more evident what Motpol stands for. It represents some kind of aesthetic and pseudo-intellectualistic form of conservatism that lacks connection with reality–as it were, soaring above the clouds among aesthetic and ideological phantasies.

    I am appalled!

    -Teofrastus

    1. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

      Heideggers philosophy inspired antinazis and marxists like Jean Paul Sarte. So history shows that Heideggers philosophy doesnt need to lead to national socialism. I would say that studying his philosophy shows the same thing.

      I think Dugin means that xenofobic attitudes should continue being valued in a similar way in 4PT as they are in Sweden today. And another thing is that racism can be an ideology. You can easily reject an ideology.

      1. Profilbild för Teofrastus

        Indeed, Heidegger counts as one of the most important thinkers underlying Cultural Marxism, which is today poisoning the intellectual and political discourse in the Western hemisphere. Does this count as a virtue?

        The official Swedish view of racial relations is that the white indigenous population is responsible for all the problems that surface in the multicultural society. Allegedly, the Whites erect barriers in the form of ”discriminating structures” and xenophobic attitudes. Thus, anti-racialist ideology neglects problems of cultural clashes, diversity of congenital temperament, and differences in IQ.

        If 4PT theorists endorse such an unrealistic view of racial relations, then it substantiates my view that 4PT represents yet another ideology lost in cloud-cuckoo-land, lacking a foothold in reality.

        It’s not enough to wear a bowtie and pronounce intellectual sophistry to be a conservative. One must connect to reality and Mother Earth!

        -Teofrastus

        1. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

          You are reasoning in the same way as our thoughtpolice: guilt by association. But its true that you can connect Heidegger to both marxism and nazism in that way. But so what? Guilt by association is of no significance in a serious discussion. Its nonsense.

          I did study some Heidegger once. But I havent studied him in depth. Anyway, my understanding is that ”Being and time” is a theory of authenticity and I would say that authenticity is exactly what the West is lacking today. So perhaps it is true that we can learn something from Heidegger?

          I wrote about how xenophobia can be valued. I think it is the reptile brain sending impulses. And people who are dominated by the reptilian brain are at the same level as crocodiles in the Nile. But of course such a statement doesnt mean that I agree with the ideology we call ”cultural marxism”. As a contributor to motpol it should be obvious that I dont.

          Of course 4PT-theorists arent cultural marxists. Are you serious? Why dont you read ”The fourth political theory” instead of critizising something you obviously know nothing about.

    2. Profilbild för Tjodrik

      I agree with you in some sense, even though I don’t mind at all taking share of Dugins thoughts here on Motpol. Indeed, I believe it is very important to be aware and up to date on the different political ideas and developments in the world.

      However, trying to create a ”spiritual unity”, or a political unity for that matter, where there’s no underlying physical foundation for such a unity to exist, will create exactly what Dugins purports that he’s opposed to, i.e., ”xenophobic attitudes”, ”chauvinism”, etc.
      Maybe the European Union project is the prime example of this, although I am fully aware that the ideological and mythical foundation for this is of totally different sort then the sort of the unity that Dugin speaks of.

      If any sort of unity, be it political or spiritual, should be tried ”to be created”, it should be a unity of Scandinavia, possible also including Germany, the Netherlands and the British Isles. Indeed, this would be a very powerful geopolitical actor controlling not only northern Europe, but also Greenland and the north Atlantic with it’s natural resources and the water ways, Here, there is actually an underlying physical foundation for such an unity due to the close biological kinship of the specific peoples. What is lacking is a spiritual unity, but this strikes me as a less greater challenge to create, than to create a spiritual unity that incorporates both north and south Europe.

  2. Profilbild för Teofrastus

    This inane crap could have been written by the average gone astray senior high student. Dugin elevates Heidegger, who was a Nazi and wore a swaztika on his sleeve. Nevertheless, Dugin says that ”4PT” rejects racism! The notion of rejecting ”xenophobic attitudes” is self-defeating, because research has shown that people cannot control it consciously. It is not enough to say that ”I am not a racist!”. In fact, it’s the constant, vague, just-below-the-surface acts of racism that impair performance, day in and day out. Surreptitious racism magnifies when people remain politically correct and refuse to talk openly about painful questions (see ’Racism’s Cognitive Toll: Subtle Discrimination Is More Taxing On The Brain’. ScienceDaily (Sep. 24, 2007).

    Dugin embraces collectivism, the horrible evil that in diverse forms has afflicted the modern era. (And whoever knows what Heidegger means by ’Dasein’? Does phenomenological ontology really matter to you people?)

    It is becoming more and more evident what Motpol stands for. It represents some kind of aesthetic and pseudo-intellectualistic form of conservatism that lacks connection with reality–as it were, soaring above the clouds among aesthetic and ideological phantasies.

    I am appalled!

    -Teofrastus

    1. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

      Heideggers philosophy inspired antinazis and marxists like Jean Paul Sarte. So history shows that Heideggers philosophy doesnt need to lead to national socialism. I would say that studying his philosophy shows the same thing.

      I think Dugin means that xenofobic attitudes should continue being valued in a similar way in 4PT as they are in Sweden today. And another thing is that racism can be an ideology. You can easily reject an ideology.

      1. Profilbild för Teofrastus

        Indeed, Heidegger counts as one of the most important thinkers underlying Cultural Marxism, which is today poisoning the intellectual and political discourse in the Western hemisphere. Does this count as a virtue?

        The official Swedish view of racial relations is that the white indigenous population is responsible for all the problems that surface in the multicultural society. Allegedly, the Whites erect barriers in the form of ”discriminating structures” and xenophobic attitudes. Thus, anti-racialist ideology neglects problems of cultural clashes, diversity of congenital temperament, and differences in IQ.

        If 4PT theorists endorse such an unrealistic view of racial relations, then it substantiates my view that 4PT represents yet another ideology lost in cloud-cuckoo-land, lacking a foothold in reality.

        It’s not enough to wear a bowtie and pronounce intellectual sophistry to be a conservative. One must connect to reality and Mother Earth!

        -Teofrastus

        1. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

          You are reasoning in the same way as our thoughtpolice: guilt by association. But its true that you can connect Heidegger to both marxism and nazism in that way. But so what? Guilt by association is of no significance in a serious discussion. Its nonsense.

          I did study some Heidegger once. But I havent studied him in depth. Anyway, my undertstanding is that ”Being and time” is a theory of authenticity and I would say that authenticity is exactly what the West is lacking today. So perhaps it is true that we can learn something from Heidegger?

          I wrote about how xenophobia can be valued. I think it is the reptile brain sending impulses. And people who are dominated by the reptilian brain are at the same level as crocodiles in the Nile. But of course such a statement doesnt mean that I agree with the ideology we call ”cultural marxism”. As a contributor to motpol it should be obvious that I dont.

          Of course 4P-theorists arent cultural marxists. Are you serious? Why dont you read ”The fourth political theory” instead of critizising something you obviously know nothing about.

    2. Profilbild för Tjodrik

      I agree with you in some sense, even though I don’t mind at all taking share of Dugins thoughts here on Motpol. Indeed, I believe it is very important to be aware and up to date on the different political ideas and developments in the world.

      However, trying to create a ”spiritual unity”, or a political unity for that matters, where there’s no underlying physical foundation for such a unity to exists, will create exactly what Dugins purports that he’s opposed to, i.e., ”xenophobic attitudes”, ”chauvinism”, etc.
      Maybe the European Union project is the prime example of this, although I am fully aware that the ideological and mythical foundation for this is of totally different sort then the unity that Dugin speaks of is.

      If any sort of unity, be it political or spiritual, it should be to try ”to create” a unity of Scandinavia, possible also including Germany, the Netherlands and the British Isles. Indeed, this would be a very powerful geopolitical actor, and here there is actually an underlying physical foundation for such an unity.

  3. Profilbild för mirotanien

    Thank you for this article Mr. Dugin. I’ve read ”The Fourth Political Theory” and this Motpol essay was rather enlightening. I only have one question, slightly off-topic:

    What about the family?

    As I’ve understood it from your book liberalism had the individual as a centerpiece, communism had the working class, fascism had the nation and The Fourth Political Theory has Dasein. But what about the family, is that a totally irrelevant factor in the politics of the 21st century?

    Personally I can relate to 4PT:s model of the individual going to the centre of things, defying death and nihilism and becoming a differentiated being (or an authentic man); this kind of ”Dasein conscious” person is a subject worthy of being construed politically. However, for the sake of the discussion, where (if at all) does the family enter into all this?

    As far as I’m concerned, the 4PT when neglecting the role of the family becomes a wee bit abstract.

    1. Profilbild för Alexandr Dugin

      The family is not composed from individuals pair + children. It is a kind of one extensive Dasein not different Dasein’s. The family should be understood existentially. That is in its relations to Death. The family is a sort of mean to overcome Death. But the strategy of birth (of children) is not unique solution in dealing with Death. Evola has shown that very well in Metaphysics of Sex. The family deals really with the Death when it becomes sacred. As in Chine for example where the family is the Place for the Dead to return. So it is the space reserved for the manifestation of Death. That is the origin of veneration of family spirits, genii. This dimension of the Sacred and of the relations to Death are most important in the 4PT understanding family. Family is not value in itself but in its existential meaning. So family can exist authentically or not authentically. The idea that family consists from individuals is the clear example of the inauthentic understanding of family. The woman is but free shadow of man to be reintegrated in the whole. Man is the whole but only accomplished man, so man with his wife whose freedom is exalted in the existential plenitude of Man and here is consumed. The children are sacred because they are manifested souls going to Heaven. They are path, not the end.

      1. Profilbild för mirotanien

        Thank you for the answer, Mr. Dugin.

  4. Profilbild för mirotanien

    Thank you for this article Mr. Dugin. I’ve read ”The Fourth Political Theory” and this Motpol essay was rather enlightening. I only have one question, slightly off-topic:

    What about the family?

    As I’ve understood it from your book liberalism had the individual as a centerpiece, communism had the working class, fascism had the nation and The Fourth Political Theory has Dasein. But what about the family, is that a totally irrelevant factor in the politics of the 21st century?

    Personally I can relate to 4PT:s model of the individual going to the centre of things, defying death and nihilism and becoming a differentiated being (or an authentic man); this kind of ”Dasein conscious” person is a subject worthy of being construed politically. However, for the sake of the discussion, where (if at all) does the family enter into all this?

    As far as I’m concerned, the 4PT when neglecting the role of the family becomes a wee bit abstract.

    1. Profilbild för Alexandr Dugin

      The family is not composed from individuals pair + children. It is a kind of one extensive Dasein not different Dasein’s. The family should be understood existentially. That is in its relations to Death. The family is a sort of mean to overcome Death. But the strategy of birth (of children) is not unique solution in dealing with Death. Evola has shown that very well in Metaphysics of Sex. The family deals really with the Death when it becomes sacred. As in Chine for example where the family is the Place for the Dead to return. So it is the space reserved for the manifestation of Death. That is the origin of veneration of family spirits, genii. This dimension of the Sacred and of the relations to Death are most important in the 4PT understanding family. Family is not value in itself but in its existential meaning. So family can exist authentically or not authentically. The idea that family consists from individuals is the clear example of the inauthentic understanding of family. The woman is but free shadow of man to be reintegrated in the whole. Man is the whole but only accomplished man, so man with his wife whose freedom is exalted in the existential plenitude of Man and here is consumed. The children are sacred because they are manifested souls going to Heaven. They are path, not the end.

      1. Profilbild för mirotanien

        Thank you for the answer, Mr. Dugin.

  5. Profilbild för Gautthiod

    ”Last point. Europe is the West, and decline is its essence. To come to the lowest point of its descent (Niedergang) is the fate of Europe. It is deeply tragic, and not something one should be proud of. So the 4PT is in favor of a European Idea in which Europe is understood as a sort of tragic community (as per Georges Bataille): a culture that is searching for itself in the heart of Hell.”

    How can this sort of fatalistic nonsense be promoted by a think tank of supposedly traditional European revival (or survival)?

    1. Profilbild för Daniel Friberg

      I didn’t expect such anti-intellectual nonsense from you. Motpol is a place for debate and analysis, and publishing an article is not necessarily the same as promoting each and every idea in it – something which you as a long-time contributor should be well aware of. Show some proper respect and adult behaviour.

      1. Profilbild för Gautthiod

        I thought it obvious that anti-intellectualism was the major contribution I’ve offered Motpol so far. If debate and analysis is the foundational ground for Motpol, then let’s! Elaborate, defend or defect on the subject – or my critique of it.

        Instead of resorting to insults to supposed co-workers.

        1. Profilbild för Daniel Friberg

          My comment was not an invitation to debate. I have neither the time nor inclination to debate anything with you whatsoever. I’m of course also deeply sorry for ”insulting” you.

          Anyway, if you – pretty please, with sugar on top – could show some proper respect to our guest contributors when commenting (even when you don’t agree with their views) it would make me super-happy. Thanks.

          1. Profilbild för Teofrastus

            Instead, Motpol should show some proper respect for their readers by not exposing them to yet another collectivistic ideology, this time a Russian form of fascism, namely ”National Bolshevism”, which strives after Russian hegemony in Europe. Haven’t we had enough of this kind of madness in the modern era? This is not the first time that Dugin’s thought has been promoted on this site. What is it that you are raising money for? A National Bolshevism as a modern counterpart of National Socialism? You have actually invited this author to write an article here, the leading organizer of the National Bolshevik Party and National Bolshevik Front. It is scary!

            So this is Motpol’s vision of the future, a new kind of borderless fascism in Europe, without the racist and chauvinist excesses of Nazism. Readers do right in criticizing it harshly, because it is the same old collectivistic chimera, albeit wrapped in more politically correct clothes.
            -Teofrastus

          2. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            Now I´m getting annoyed with you. Some things you have written here is good, but now you are just being stupid. You seem to have a brain, why not use it? Its obvious that you know nothing about 4PT, but you are critizising it anyway…

            If motpol would have been just another dogmatic sect where we cant present different ideas because we have to stay with the ”party line” I would have found it far less interesting. Perhaps you have misunderstood what motpol is. Its a thinktank, not a dogmatic political sect.

            You sound just like somebody from our thoughtpolice, except that you have different dogmas. They keep repeating their mantras like ”rasism” and ”fascism” etc. You do exactly the same thing, but use different words.

            Intelligent and thoughtful people find it stimulating to read about different ideas and think about them, even if they dont agree with them. I think motpol is reaching some people like that. And thats very good,

          3. Profilbild för Teofrastus

            Of course, we should be able to discuss anything, which is what I’m doing. I don’t use fascism as a mantra. Dugin is a self-professed fascist:

            ”[In] the 1990s, this self-styled ’neo-Eurasian’ joyously welcomed the imminent birth of ’fascist fascism’ in Russia and praised the organiser of the Holocaust, Reinhard Heydrich, for being a ’convinced Eurasian.’ Back then Dugin frankly described his ideology as ’conservative revolutionary,’ asserting that the core idea of fascism is the ’conservative revolution.’ Throughout the nineties the ’neo-Eurasian’ made a whole number of similar statements, including various more or less qualified apologies for the Third Reich.” (here)

            I know that he has changed tone in recent years. That’s why I denoted it fascism with an air of political correctness. So I am pointing at facts. Comparatively, I wouldn’t denote Sverigedemokraterna a fascist party, because it does not accord with facts. I don’t mind discussing with communists and fascists. But I will keep to facts, namely that these are horrible collectivistic ideologies that bring devastation and suffering to mankind.

            I will also relate another fact: Motpol destroys its reputation by inviting such an author. After all, there are many vastly more intelligent and cunning intellectuals whose contributions would better serve to invoke a fruitful discussion. Next time, choose an intelligent author with sound, non-collectivistic views. This citation is from online book ”Political Correctness:” A Short History of an Ideology:

            ”As Russell Kirk wrote, one of conservatism’s most important insights is that all ideologies are wrong. Ideology takes an intellectual system, a product of one or more philosophers, and says, ’This system must be true.’ Inevitably, reality ends up contradicting the system, usually on a growing number of points. But the ideology, by its nature, cannot adjust to reality; to do so would be to abandon the system…” (here)
            -Teofrastus

          4. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            Frankly, I dont care what Dugins enemies claim he wrote before he wrote ”The fourth political theory”. And I dont care if he used to be a fascist or a national bolsjevik or whatever. Its the idea of a 4PT, that isnt liberalism, and not communism and not fascism that I find interesting. The point is that we should go beyond the categories of the last century. Some who defend 4PT may have been marxists before, some may have been liberals and some may have been fascists. It doesn´t matter.

            But the sun is shining, so I´ll take a walk now.

          5. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            I agree with Kirk. But even if all ideologies are wrong we shouldn´t stop having ideas. I dont think that was what Kirk meant. I think of political ideas as tools, not as a system of truths. What do I value? What ideas can defend it?

          6. Profilbild för Charlotta Johansson

            This guilt-by-association-bs is starting to get on my nerves. If an idea is interesting, and it fills Motpol’s purpose (to present ideas and raise discussions that in one way or the other contradicts modernism), then why shouldn’t it be published? That is Motpol’s reputation: not being scared of controversy and not paying attention to irrelevant stuff like if this or that author used to be a communist in his teens, and this reputation will only increase by publishing world known names like Dugin, Gottfried etc.

            Europe, and especially Sweden, is in great need of an intellectual movement that isn’t afraid of its own shadow. What we should be striving for is a new right that is so strong and selfreliant that it survives some ideological diversity. The worst parts of extremisms like fascism and communism is the dogmatic, aggressive rhetorics used against anything that doesn’t fit the system, and in this case, you are the only one using that kind of rhetorics.

          7. Profilbild för Teofrastus

            This journal has now published so many articles about Dugin that, together with the many contributions about the ”Fourth Political Theory”, it makes the impression that Motpol is becoming a megaphone for this vulgar, intellectually inferior, and extreme political movement. It boils down to intellectual quality. If you know of some intelligent politician that can produce a qualititative argument, then I wouldn’t mind reading his article and taking it apart. But Dugin’s rhetorics is bollocks! Please don’t mention Dugin together with Gottfried, who is a respectable author.

            This situation reminds me of Stureplanscenterns attempt to take over Centerpartiet, a formerly conservative party, with cloud-cuckoo anarcho-liberalist political ideas. Please, no more ”political movements.” No more! We don’t want a European Empire and a glorious future. We want little red cottages with white trims. Moreover, we want to protect the rain forest and all the beautiful species of earth. That’s conservatism! If you want to believe in something–believe in Christ!
            -Teofrastus

          8. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            Now stop it. I have had enough of your nonsense. Motpol isn´t a party, its a thinktank. The people writing here have some common interests, but no system. Both Gottfried and Dugin have been published and discussed and will hopefully continue being discussed.

            If you continue ranting I will simply remove your comments. Thoughtful criticism is welcome, but thats not what you are delivering here.

            So just drop it. No more comments from you in this thread.

          9. Profilbild för Reaktion

            I haven’t read the book about 4PT but I have read some articles about it. If I understand them correctly Dugin seems to se have both an individualistic and a collectivistic view of how a “good” society, or civilisation, can be built: it is a pragmatic view, a little bit of Platon, Hobbes and also Nozick, and quite much of Heidegger as well as Fayes Archeofuturism (me myself think that many parts of Archeofuturism based on an organic and ecological ground is the right way to create a sort of “civilisational order” on Mother earth). Maybe Dugin himself could clear up this thing for us.

            Teofratsus: isn’t christianity a kind of collective identity where the individual – via some timeless principles – “works” for the commons best? If the answer is yes, does this mean that christianity – and most other ideas, economic theories, religions and political parties – can be sorted under the fascist umbrella? And what if all of us turned to a pure egoistic individualism, wouldn’t that be a new collectivism and therefore also a new kind of fascism? Or can we agree about that using the fascism term this way isn´t correct?

    2. Profilbild för John Morgan

      Prof. Dugin is obviously referring to the postmodern West as that which is in decline, not Europe in its entirety. The idea that the West is in decline is not something that should come as a surprise to anyone who considers themselves a nationalist or a conservative, and dates back nearly a century to Oswald Spengler (and doubtless others before him).

      1. Profilbild för Gautthiod

        Without the proper demarcations, I do not se how this is a obvious reference to Spengler et al. As Dugin writes: ”So the 4PT is IN FAVOUR OF [my capitalisation] of a European Idea in which Europe is understod as a sort of tragic community; searching for itself in the heart of Hell[sic]”.

        As for the view on the post modern West, which is opposed to the authentic Europe, the abovementioned standpoint leaves no room for the Will of the peoples and persons of Europe proper. It only leaves room for Kremlin apologetisism and servitude; Europe have a choice between running the course of western degeneracy or adhere to the 4PT. It is fatalism. Fatalism is the purest antithesis of European essence.

        1. Profilbild för John Morgan

          Could you please not get so hysterical? Prof. Dugin makes no reference to ”the Kremlin” or Russia anywhere in this piece. Rather, he is suggesting a way for an independent Europe to re-emerge. The reality of your situation today is that Europeans are servants of the U.S., and that you have no real identity at present. Prof. Dugin offers the 4PT as a means for getting out from under that. The 4PT is not synonymous with Russia, since Russia is not a government that adheres to the principles of the 4PT.

          1. Profilbild för Gautthiod

            Well. You need to look past the doctrine (in whatever state of concretisation it is – or is not) and look at facts. 4PT is an obvious continuation of Kremlin policy, whether Dugin mention it as such or not. It only exists a way of increasing Kremlin influence and power structure. This has nothing to do with being hysterical. It is fact. The real existing structures in terms of energy supply and military force makes Russia the beneficiary of the 4PT. Is Russia prepared to acknowledge an independent Europe in the long run? Of course not. It is not in their interest. The only way for a peaceful cooperation between Europe and Russia, is for Russia to once against become European – ruled by European elites. That is not the 4PT perspective. Quite the opposite – 4PT is connected with the idea of a Euroasianist power structure which is inclusive of peoples and cultures completely alien to European essence.

            As for the USA, NATO and the continuation of organic identity; yes, Europe today a buffert zone for American globalism. Making Europe a buffert zone for another foreign power does not change the real situation – as we see today in Ukraine. There is a need for a Third force, and that third force is the one and only condition for European rebirth and/or survival. If you do not believe that there exists a organically rooted European identity today, behind the Starbucks and Gay Pride parades – then I do not know what game you’re playing.

    3. Profilbild för Carlos Broch

      “I am a supporter of blacks. White civilization; their cultural values​​, false, dehumanizing model of the world, built by them – did not pay off. Everything goes to the beginning of the anti-white pogroms on a planetary scale. Russia saved only by the fact that we are not pure white. Predatory multinational corporations, oppression and suppression of all others, MTV, gays and lesbians – this is the fruit of white civilization, from which it is necessary to get rid of. So I am for reds, yellows, greens, blacks – but not for whites. I wholeheartedly on the side of the people of Zimbabwe.”

      ~Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin, advisor to Vladimir Putin on the Eurasian Alliance (BRIC Nations) against the West

      1. Profilbild för Lucian Tudor

        Thanks to John Morgan’s help, I managed to contact Alexander Dugin back in September about the issue of this Zimbabwe quote. I commented about the matter underneath my article ”The Real Dugin” (in which, by the way, I also explained the issues surrounding the supposed Russian chauvinism, the concept of Europe vs. West, etc.), but there is no harm in repeating what I said there here. People were using this quote to claim that Dugin was ”anti-white” or ”racist against whites” in some manner. In his response, Dugin explained that, first of all, he is against all forms of racism, including the black racism against whites which is described in that quote. He sees that the attitude that the Zimbabweans (their hostility to whites) expressed as being something a mimicking of white racism, and being something bad. Also, he mentioned that sometimes his statements or writings are ironic or sarcastic in nature. So, actually, in the broader context of the interview from which that quote was taken, it was an ironic statement in the context of a larger discussion and cannot be taken as a valid representation of what he really thinks. Therefore, the quote is being misused, and Dugin has no such anti-white opinions as what it appears from the quote.

        1. Profilbild för Interregnum

          Thanks for clearing that up. I’m so tired of irrational Russophobes depicting Dugin as an enemy when he has expressed so many times that he in support of the Imperium Europa idea because it follows the logic of continentalism in opposition to the reigning Atlanticism making Europa a puppet of the Americanocentric forces of globalism. Enough! We’re on the same side in this struggle.

          Keep the Dugin articles coming, please.

  6. Profilbild för Gautthiod

    ”Last point. Europe is the West, and decline is its essence. To come to the lowest point of its descent (Niedergang) is the fate of Europe. It is deeply tragic, and not something one should be proud of. So the 4PT is in favor of a European Idea in which Europe is understood as a sort of tragic community (as per Georges Bataille): a culture that is searching for itself in the heart of Hell.”

    How can this sort of fatalistic nonsense be promoted by a think tank of supposedly traditional European revival (or survival)?

    1. Profilbild för Daniel Friberg

      I didn’t expect such anti-intellectual nonsense from you. Motpol is a place for debate and analysis, and publishing an article is not necessarily the same as promoting each and every idea in it – something which you as a long-time contributor should be well aware of. Show some proper respect and adult behaviour.

      1. Profilbild för Gautthiod

        I thought it obvious that anti-intellectualism was the major contribution I’ve offered Motpol so far. If debate and analysis is the foundational ground for Motpol, then let’s! Elaborate, defend or defect on the subject – or my critique of it.

        Instead of resorting to insults to supposed co-workers.

        1. Profilbild för Daniel Friberg

          My comment was not an invitation to debate. I have neither the time nor inclination to debate anything with you whatsoever. I’m of course also deeply sorry for ”insulting” you.

          Anyway, if you – pretty please, with sugar on top – could show some proper respect to our guest contributors when commenting (even when you don’t agree with their views) it would make me super-happy. Thanks.

          1. Profilbild för Teofrastus

            Instead, Motpol should show some proper respect for their readers by not exposing them to yet another collectivistic ideology, this time a Russian form of fascism, namely ”National Bolshevism”, which strives after Russian hegemony in Europe. Haven’t we had enough of this kind of madness in the modern era? This is not the first time that Dugin’s thought has been promoted on this site. What is it that you are raising money for? A National Bolshevism as a modern counterpart of National Socialism? You have actually invited this author to write an article here, the leading organizer of the National Bolshevik Party and National Bolshevik Front. It is scary!

            So this is Motpol’s vision of the future, a new kind of borderless fascism in Europe, without the racist and chauvinist excesses of Nazism. Readers do right in criticizing it harshly, because it is the same old collectivistic chimera, albeit wrapped in more politically correct clothes.
            -Teofrastus

          2. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            Now I´m getting annoyed with you. Some things you have written here is good, but now you are just being stupid. You seem to have a brain, why not use it?

            If motpol would have been just another dogmatic sect where we cant present different ideas because we have to stay with the ”party line” I would have found it far less interesting. Perhaps you have misunderstood what motpol is. Its a thinktank, not a dogmatic political sect.

            You sound just like somebody from our thoughtpolice, except that you have different dogmas. They keep repeating their mantras like ”rasism” and ”fascism” etc. You do exactly the same thing, but use different words.

            Intelligent and thoughtful people find it stimulating to read about different ideas and think about them, even if they dont agree with them. I think motpol is reaching some people like that. And thats very good,

          3. Profilbild för Teofrastus

            Of course, we should be able to discuss anything, which is what I’m doing. I don’t use fascism as a mantra. Dugin is a self-professed fascist:

            ”[In] the 1990s, this self-styled ’neo-Eurasian’ joyously welcomed the imminent birth of ’fascist fascism’ in Russia and praised the organiser of the Holocaust, Reinhard Heydrich, for being a ’convinced Eurasian.’ Back then Dugin frankly described his ideology as ’conservative revolutionary,’ asserting that the core idea of fascism is the ’conservative revolution.’ Throughout the nineties the ’neo-Eurasian’ made a whole number of similar statements, including various more or less qualified apologies for the Third Reich.” (here)

            I know that he has changed tone in recent years. That’s why I denoted it fascism with an air of political correctness. So I am pointing at facts. Comparatively, I wouldn’t denote Sverigedemokraterna a fascist party, because it does not accord with facts. I don’t mind discussing with communists and fascists. But I will keep to facts, namely that these are horrible collectivistic ideologies that bring devastation and suffering to mankind.

            I will also relate another fact: Motpol destroys its reputation by inviting such an author. After all, there are many vastly more intelligent and cunning intellectuals whose contributions would better serve to invoke a fruitful discussion. Next time, choose an intelligent author with sound, non-collectivistic views. This citation is from online book ”Political Correctness:” A Short History of an Ideology:

            ”As Russell Kirk wrote, one of conservatism’s most important insights is that all ideologies are wrong. Ideology takes an intellectual system, a product of one or more philosophers, and says, ’This system must be true.’ Inevitably, reality ends up contradicting the system, usually on a growing number of points. But the ideology, by its nature, cannot adjust to reality; to do so would be to abandon the system…” (here)
            -Teofrastus

          4. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            Frankly, I dont care what Dugins enemies claim he wrote before he wrote ”The fourth political theory”. And I dont care if he used to be a fascist or a national bolsjevik or whatever. Its the idea of a 4PT, that isnt liberalism, and not communism and not fascism that I find interesting. The point is that we should go beyond the categories of the last century. Some who defend 4PT may have been marxists before, some may have been liberals and some may have been fascists. It doesn´t matter.

            But the sun is shining, so I´ll take a walk now.

          5. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            I agree with Kirk. But even if all ideologies are wrong we shouldn´t stop having ideas. I dont think that was what Kirk meant. I think of political ideas as tools, not as a system of truths. What do I value? What ideas can defend it?

          6. Profilbild för Charlotta Johansson

            This guilt-by-association-bs is starting to get on my nerves. If an idea is interesting, and it fills Motpol’s purpose (to present ideas and raise discussions that in one way or the other contradicts modernism), then why shouldn’t it be published? That is Motpol’s reputation: not being scared of controversy and not paying attention to irrelevant stuff like if this or that author used to be a communist in his teens, and this reputation will only increase by publishing world known names like Dugin, Gottfried etc.

            Europe, and especially Sweden, is in great need of an intellectual movement that isn’t afraid of its own shadow. What we should be striving for is a new right that is so strong and selfreliant that it survives some ideological diversity. The worst parts of extremisms like fascism and communism is the dogmatic, aggressive rhetorics used against anything that doesn’t fit the system, and in this case, you are the only one using that kind of rhetorics.

          7. Profilbild för Teofrastus

            This journal has now published so many articles about Dugin that, together with the many contributions about the ”Fourth Political Theory”, it makes the impression that Motpol is becoming a megaphone for this vulgar, intellectually inferior, and extreme political movement. It boils down to intellectual quality. If you know of some intelligent politician that can produce a qualititative argument, then I wouldn’t mind reading his article and taking it apart. But Dugin’s rhetorics is bollocks! Please don’t mention Dugin together with Gottfried, who is a respectable author.

            This situation reminds me of Stureplanscenterns attempt to take over Centerpartiet, a formerly conservative party, with cloud-cuckoo anarcho-liberalist political ideas. Please, no more ”political movements.” No more! We don’t want a European Empire and a glorious future. We want little red cottages with white trims. Moreover, we want to protect the rain forest and all the beautiful species of earth. That’s conservatism! If you want to believe in something–believe in Christ!
            -Teofrastus

          8. Profilbild för Joakim Fredriksson

            Now stop it. I have had enough of your nonsense. Motpol isn´t a party, its a thinktank. The people writing here have some common interests, but no system. Both Gottfried and Dugin have been published and discussed and will hopefully continue being discussed.

            If you continue ranting I will simply remove your comments. Thoughtful criticism is welcome, but thats not what you are delivering here.

            So just drop it. No more comments from you in this thread.

          9. Profilbild för Reaktion

            I haven’t read the book about 4PT but I have read some articles about it. If I understand them correctly Dugin seems to se have both an individualistic and a collectivistic view of how a “good” society, or civilisation, can be built: it is a pragmatic view, a little bit of Platon, Hobbes and also Nozick, and quite much of Heidegger as well as Fayes Archeofuturism (me myself think that many parts of Archeofuturism based on an organic and ecological ground is the right way to create a sort of “civilisational order” on Mother earth). Maybe Dugin himself could clear up this thing for us.

            Teofratsus: isn’t christianity a kind of collective identity where the individual – via some timeless principles – “works” for the commons best? If the answer is yes, does this mean that christianity – and most other ideas, economic theories, religions and political parties – can be sorted under the fascist umbrella? And what if all of us turned to a pure egoistic individualism, wouldn’t that be a new collectivism and therefore also a new kind of fascism? Or can we agree in that using the fascism term this way isn´t correct?

    2. Profilbild för John Morgan

      Prof. Dugin is obviously referring to the postmodern West as that which is in decline, not Europe in its entirety. The idea that the West is in decline is not something that should come as a surprise to anyone who considers themselves a nationalist or a conservative, and dates back nearly a century to Oswald Spengler (and doubtless others before him).

      1. Profilbild för Gautthiod

        Without the proper demarcations, I do not se how this is a obvious reference to Spengler et al. As Dugin writes: ”So the 4PT is IN FAVOUR OF [my capitalisation] of a European Idea in which Europe is understod as a sort of tragic community; searching for itself in the heart of Hell[sic]”.

        As for the view on the post modern West, which is opposed to the authentic Europe, the abovementioned standpoint leaves no room for the Will of the peoples and persons of Europe proper. It only leaves room for Kremlin apologetisism and servitude; Europe have a choice between running the course of western degeneracy or adhere to the 4PT. It is fatalism. Fatalism is the purest antithesis of European essence.

        1. Profilbild för John Morgan

          Could you please not get so hysterical? Prof. Dugin makes no reference to ”the Kremlin” or Russia anywhere in this piece. Rather, he is suggesting a way for an independent Europe to re-emerge. The reality of your situation today is that Europeans are servants of the U.S., and that you have no real identity at present. Prof. Dugin offers the 4PT as a means for getting out from under that. The 4PT is not synonymous with Russia, since Russia is not a government that adheres to the principles of the 4PT.

          1. Profilbild för Gautthiod

            Well. You need to look past the doctrine (in whatever state of concretisation it is – or is not) and look at facts. 4PT is an obvious continuation of Kremlin policy, whether Dugin mention it as such or not. It only exists a way of increasing Kremlin influence and power structure. This has nothing to do with being hysterical. It is fact. The real existing structures in terms of energy supply and military force makes Russia the beneficiary of the 4PT. Is Russia prepared to acknowledge an independent Europe in the long run? Of course not. It is not in their interest. The only way for a peaceful cooperation between Europe and Russia, is for Russia to once against become European – ruled by European elites. That is not the 4PT perspective. Quite the opposite – 4PT is connected with the idea of a Euroasianist power structure which is inclusive of peoples and cultures completely alien to European essence.

            As for the USA, NATO and the continuation of organic identity; yes, Europe today a buffert zone for American globalism. Making Europe a buffert zone for another foreign power does not change the real situation – as we see today in Ukraine. There is a need for a Third force, and that third force is the one and only condition for European rebirth and/or survival. If you do not believe that there exists a organically rooted European identity today, behind the Starbucks and Gay Pride parades – then I do not know what game you’re playing.

    3. Profilbild för Carlos Broch

      “I am a supporter of blacks. White civilization; their cultural values​​, false, dehumanizing model of the world, built by them – did not pay off. Everything goes to the beginning of the anti-white pogroms on a planetary scale. Russia saved only by the fact that we are not pure white. Predatory multinational corporations, oppression and suppression of all others, MTV, gays and lesbians – this is the fruit of white civilization, from which it is necessary to get rid of. So I am for reds, yellows, greens, blacks – but not for whites. I wholeheartedly on the side of the people of Zimbabwe.”

      ~Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin, advisor to Vladimir Putin on the Eurasian Alliance (BRIC Nations) against the West

      1. Profilbild för Lucian Tudor

        Thanks to John Morgan’s help, I managed to contact Alexander Dugin back in September about the issue of this Zimbabwe quote. I commented about the matter underneath my article ”The Real Dugin” (in which, by the way, I also explained the issues surrounding the supposed Russian chauvinism, the concept of Europe vs. West, etc.), but there is no harm in repeating what I said there here. People were using this quote to claim that Dugin was ”anti-white” or ”racist against whites” in some manner. In his response, Dugin explained that, first of all, he is against all forms of racism, including the black racism against whites which is described in that quote. He sees that the attitude that the Zimbabweans (their hostility to whites) expressed as being something a mimicking of white racism, and being something bad. Also, he mentioned that sometimes his statements or writings are ironic or sarcastic in nature. So, actually, in the broader context of the interview from which that quote was taken, it was an ironic statement in the context of a larger discussion and cannot be taken as a valid representation of what he really thinks. Therefore, the quote is being misused, and Dugin has no such anti-white opinions as what it appears from the quote.

        1. Profilbild för Interregnum

          Thanks for clearing that up. I’m so tired of irrational Russophobes depicting Dugin as an enemy when he has expressed so many times that he in support of the Imperium Europa idea because it follows the logic of continentalism in opposition to the reigning Atlanticism making Europa a puppet of the Americanocentric forces of globalism. Enough! We’re on the same side in this struggle.

          Keep the Dugin articles coming, please.

  7. Profilbild för Reaktion

    Thank you for an interesting article. An important thing that you point out in your text: individualism is not the same as liberalism.

    The effort of the will must have a connection to an idea. The idea of family is a deeply rooted will for must human beings; if you don’t have children, then you are – in some meaning – uncomplete. If you have familly combined with some kind of spiritual feeling and timeless pricinples like honour – in the meaning that you don’t fool your next (which doesen’t mean that yor are not prepared to be fooled by others) – then you come close to Dasein. Especially if you are a part of what you call the ”new European empire … a geopolitical unity… with a spiritual foundation, and with the dialectical coexistence of diverse ethic groups”.

    According to what you say: ”Europe is the West, and decline is its essence” – shouldn’t it be more correctly to say ”Liberalism is in the West, and decline is its essence”?

  8. Profilbild för Reaktion

    Thank you for an interesting article. An important thing that you point out in your text: individualism is not the same as liberalism.

    The effort of the will must have a connection to an idea. The idea of family is a deeply rooted will for must human beings; if you don’t have children, then you are – in some meaning – uncomplete. If you have familly combined with some kind of spiritual feeling and timeless pricinples like honour – in the meaning that you don’t fool your next (which doesen’t mean that yor are not prepared to be fooled by others) – then you come close to Dasein. Especially if you are a part of what you call the ”new European empire … a geopolitical unity… with a spiritual foundation, and with the dialectical coexistence of diverse ethic groups”.

    According to what you say: ”Europe is the West, and decline is its essence” – shouldn’t it be more correctly to say ”Liberalism is in the West, and decline is its essence”?

  9. Profilbild för Tjodrik

    It is very interesting indeed to read about Alexander Dugins ideas and perspectives. Reading the above text, this particular assertion struck me:

    ”European history was always based on the plurality of its cultures and
    the unity of its spiritual authorities. This was destroyed, first by the
    Protestant Reformation and then by modernity. The liquidation of
    European spiritual unity was part of the origin of European nationalism.”

    My objection to this is that the spiritual unity that Dugin refers to here only existed for some 500 years, from the forced introduction of Christianty to the northern parts of Europe around year 1000, to the reformation. I would hardly say that spiritual unity in this sense is something that is deeply rooted in European tradition, since it only existed for a rather short period of time in the history of the European peoples.

    As for the last claim in the above citation, I am not sure whether Dugin implies that the European nationalism was the cause behind the liquidation of European spiritual unity, or that it coincided in time. Anyhow, I would like to offer a different interpretation. I believe the reformation was bound to happen. Indeed, it was already initiated from the very beginning of the introduction of Christianity to northern Europe, and the reformation was the culmination of that struggle. The Nordic peoples has never been catholic in spirit and heart and will never be, it was a pure political arrangement, not a spiritual one among the peoples.

    Since the claimed ”spiritual unity” of Europe in fact is an anomally in the European tradition, I think it’s utterly hopeless to try to recreate such an unity. From a traditional European perspective, a perspective that doesn’t start in year 0 (which in fact is a modern and ”progressivist” perspective) but much longer back in time, I believe that both the reformation and the emergence of nationalism with emphasis on indigineous European religion and spirituality, can be seen as a reconnection in some sense with the deeper European tradition in a longer time-span. I believe it is precisely this path that we must continue on.

  10. Profilbild för Tjodrik

    It is very interesting indeed to read about Alexander Dugins ideas and perspectives. Reading the above text, this particular assertion struck me:

    ”European history was always based on the plurality of its cultures and
    the unity of its spiritual authorities. This was destroyed, first by the
    Protestant Reformation and then by modernity. The liquidation of
    European spiritual unity was part of the origin of European nationalism.”

    My objection to this is that the spiritual unity that Dugin refers to here only existed for some 500 years, from the forced introduction of Christianty to the northern parts of Europe around year 1000, to the reformation. I would hardly say that spiritual unity in this sense is something that is deeply rooted in European tradition, since it only existed for a rather short period of time in the history of the European peoples.

    As for the last claim in the above citation, I am not sure whether Dugin implies that the European nationalism was the cause behind the liquidation of European spiritual unity, or that it coincided in time. Anyhow, I would like to offer a different interpretation. I believe the reformation was bound to happen. Indeed, it was already initiated from the very beginning of the introduction of Christianity to northern Europe, and the reformation was the culmination of that struggle. The Nordic peoples has never been catholic in spirit and heart and will never be, it was a pure political arrangement, not a spiritual one among the peoples.

    Since the claimed ”spiritual unity” of Europe in fact is an anomally in the European tradition, I think it’s utterly hopeless to try to recreate such an unity. From a traditional European perspective, a perspective that doesn’t start in year 0 (which in fact is a modern and ”progressivist” perspective) but much longer back in time, I believe that both the reformation and the emergence of nationalism with emphasis on indigineous European religion and spirituality, can be seen as a reconnection in some sense with the deeper European tradition in a longer time-span. I believe it is precisely this path that we must continue on.

  11. Profilbild för Modest

    On building worldly empires, guys:
    ”That which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God”
    (Luke 16:15)

  12. Profilbild för Modest

    On building worldly empires, guys:
    ”That which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God”
    (Luke 16:15)

  13. Profilbild för Hot

    Great debate!

    1. Profilbild för Mogura

      Well yes and no. Nothing wrong with spirited discussion but I think I lost count of the times ”guilt by association” was used to denote someone who disagrees. Some conservatives could be a little more conservative with the use of labels pun intended.

  14. Profilbild för Hot

    Great debate!

    1. Profilbild för Mogura

      Well yes and no. Nothing wrong with spirited discussion but I think I lost count of the times ”guilt by association” was used to denote someone who disagrees. Some conservatives could be a little more conservative with the use of labels pun intended.

  15. Profilbild för EvigtRegn

    Professor Dugin is obviously very knowledgeable and it’s stimulating to read what he writes.

  16. Profilbild för EvigtRegn

    Professor Dugin is obviously very knowledgeable and it’s stimulating to read what he writes.

  17. Profilbild för Dr Pangloss

    I regret to say that I find this a rather deplorable philosophical obfuscation. It is nowhere near a political theory.

    The 4PT appears to be as flawed as any collectivist ideology. It doesn’t propose any new answers to any significant questions. On the contrary, the 4PT is rather reactionary, and the idea of a New European Empire based on a spiritual, counter-modern antiliberalism seems uneducated and bizarre at best.

    The past is the new future. Goodbye Putin, hello Rasputin.

  18. Profilbild för Dr Pangloss

    I regret to say that I find this a rather deplorable philosophical obfuscation. It is nowhere near a political theory.

    The 4PT appears to be as flawed as any collectivist ideology. It doesn’t propose any new answers to any significant questions. On the contrary, the 4PT is rather reactionary, and the idea of a New European Empire based on a spiritual, counter-modern antiliberalism seems uneducated and bizarre at best.

    The past is the new future. Goodbye Putin, hello Rasputin.

  19. Profilbild för Finnish_guy

    I have read a lot about both ”Fourth political theory” and works of Alain de Benoist. I truly admire their works but only problem is that most of their ideas are kind of abstract. I would like to see an article that tells more ”simple” and ”practical” version of ”Fourth political theory” and how to go towards it.

    Explain it like you would explain it to 10 years old and use practical examples. That would help spreading the word.

  20. Profilbild för Finnish_guy

    I have read a lot about both ”Fourth political theory” and works of Alain de Benoist. I truly admire their works but only problem is that most of their ideas are kind of abstract. I would like to see an article that tells more ”simple” and ”practical” version of ”Fourth political theory” and how to go towards it.

    Explain it like you would explain it to 10 years old and use practical examples. That would help spreading the word.

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